The onetime member of the White Power band Final Solution has done a hell of a lot of work to erase that past, founding the organization Life After Hate with Arno Michaelis, formerly of another well-known White Power band Centurion. He is now trying to raise money to publish his life story titled Romantic Violence: Memoirs of an American Skinhead,, and he can use your help. One thing to note: regulars to this site know that we will not accept the idea that neo-Nazis have any connection to what true skinhead culture is, so whenever we are talking about neo-Nazis that call themselves skinheads, we put that word in quotes. We do that a lot in this article, so when you see it, know that is our editing.

One People’s Project

OPP: Blue Island has been called, “the epicenter for American ‘skinheads'”. Paint me a picture of what is happening in Blue Island during the time that you were “coming up” in the “”skinhead”” scene. What made Blue Island so easy for this movement to take hold?
 
Christian Picciolini: Blue Island, Illinois, a small urban community 20 miles southwest of downtown Chicago, was the birthplace of the American white power “skinhead” movement. It started there. The first neo-Nazi “skinhead” gang appeared here in the mid 1980s led by Clark Martell (America’s first neo-Nazi “skinhead”). Blue Island was, and is, a multicultural hotbed. In the early 80s, the East side enclave of Blue Island was predominantly inhabited by Italian immigrants. It was a safe neighborhood, with generations of families living a few houses away from each other. As people’s finances improved, they moved away and other less familiar cultures moved in. The community began to experience a “degentrification” period. This resonated with some of the local youth and a counter-culture was born to address those concerns of a “changing” neighborhood. It didn’t take long for others to relate and jump on board to support. A movement was born and it spread across the US quickly.
 
OPP: You have said, “I am my own invention, shaped both by my imagination and environment.” Explain how both your imagination and environment played a roll in your path towards hate. 
 
Christian Picciolini: I was a lonely kid. But my story is different. While I was surrounded by an old world Italian family (grandparents, aunts, and uncles) that loved me, my parents were off chasing the American dream. I missed them. As a kid I would camp out in a large, dusty coat closet at my grandparents’ house in Blue Island. It was there that my imagination soared. I dreamt of being a star athlete carried on my teammates shoulders after scoring the game-winning touchdown, of being in a grocery store just in time to foil a robbery in progress. I wanted to be a hero and I spent every waking moment trying to figure out how to be. I wanted something to belong to. I wanted my parents to pay attention. Growing up in Blue Island meant that I was 13 years old when I started to see shaved heads and Doc Martens boots on people. That environment allowed me to fulfill my desire to be a hero. And I dove right in before I could think about what the implications might be.
 
OPP: In the book you relay a story about a schoolyard fight. Do you think this was a polarizing event for you, and was it an early indicator of your future, and how does it tie into bullying? Do you find that many people who follow a path similar to the one you took have similar experiences?
 
Christian Picciolini: That particular schoolyard fight was like the oxygen that the fire inside me needed to grow. Not only did it teach me the power of violence, but it also immediately had a profound effect on the respect I received from others. I was bullied and then I became a bully, mistakenly confusing respect with fear. Most people who follow a similar path are either bullies themselves because of a lack of self-respect, have been bullied by others and therefore find the movement as a place to belong, or both. But there are many reasons that also contribute such as lack of access to opportunities, limiting environments, and abuse.
 
OPP: The “intervention” by  Clark Martell, one of the first “skinheads” in America, seemed to be a major turning point for you. How influential was this event on your choices. How impressionable of a character was Martell? Was your indoctrination part by chance in being at a certain place, at a certain time?

Christian Picciolini: Yes to all of those questions. That moment in the alley when I met Clark Martell was a perfect storm of a 14 year old wanting desperately to belong to something…anything, a very charismatic Clark Martell being in the right place at the right time, and a person (Clark) showing me he cared about me in his own twisted way.
 
OPP: You have said, “One thing that allowed me to feel such hate in my past was that I refused to see the humanity in others, so I challenge you to take that step.” Do you think that many people who fall into the same patterns you did lack empathy for others, and do you think their personal lives and upbringing play a large role in their development into racists and nonchalant attitudes? 
 
Christian Picciolini: Yes, absolutely yes. The only way you can truly hate someone is if you refuse to see them as a real person. The moment you understand that beyond just that single person exists a family, a history, a future, you simply cannot hate anymore. We’re all connected. I understand why people hate. Mostly it’s because they hate something about themselves. It’s partly projection and partly fear. Fear and ignorance of the unknown. It’s human nature to fear something you don’t understand. So my answer to that is educate yourself. Strive to understand others. Be empathetic and put yourself in that person’s shoes for a moment. All you have to do is remember how much you yourself hurt inside, and just know that that person hurts the same.
 
OPP: How important a role do rallies, literature, and symbolism play in indoctrination?
 
Christian Picciolini: As important in the movement, as those things are in normal life for anyone. They’re critical. Rallis were like pep rallies. They got us fired up. They were like team-building and networking events, only with more beer. The literature served to indoctrinate us by repeating the same messages over and over. And the symbolism was key. As simple as a badge of honor tattooed on your sleeve to mark you to others, to a flag emblazoned with a stark logo. Everyone from Nike to neo-Nazi does it. Marketing 101, really. Most important to the white power “skinhead” movement worldwide is music, though. Music was our best weapon to recruit people, keep them engaged, and keep them angry.
 
OPP: Talk a little about the significance of the “14 Words”, as it relates to propagandizing and brainwashing in “skinhead” circles. Do you think slogans and mantras such as this are powerful propagandizing tools for racists looking to indoctrinate new members?
 
Christian Picciolini: 14 Words is “We must secure the existence of our race and a future for white children.” It was our mission statement. They’re very powerful, that’s why all companies have them. It unified us under one very specific mission. It was less a recruiting tool and more a working mantra.

OPP: In the book you relay a story about how after a small but fiery “skinhead” gathering full of racially charged rhetoric and stereotypes you say that “conviction ran so high if it could have been channeled into electricity, it would have powered a small country for a month.” In your experience was this typical? Did you see this a lot in other members? Was there so much rhetoric that people would literally be fired up and ready to act without giving thought to the consequences of their actions, for themselves and others?
 
Christian Picciolini: Aggressive music, testosterone, frustration, rhetoric, and booze are a volatile mix. Anytime you put more than a handful of “skinhead”s in the same room there was bound to be a blowout. If there wasn’t an outside target to bear the brunt of the explosion, sometimes it imploded inward and you’d see us fighting ourselves. The whole movement was rocket-fueled by this dangerous mix of ingredients at all times.
 
OPP: You wrote, “This meeting was about action. About combining forces and bringing the various scattered groups under one banner.” This is a common theme popular even today in racialist circles. Why is this so important, the combining of forces? I see this a lot. Is it because these movements are in reality so small that there is an almost sense of desperation? Do you also think that a sense of desperation moves people to make rash decisions and do things that they might not otherwise do?
Christian Picciolini: I don’t think it’s desperation that drives the mergers. I think it’s about strength in numbers and the basic human need of belonging to something. The groups are typically small, but combining groups offers perceived strength and credibility. It’s all about perception. Perception is reality, isn’t it?
 
OPP: You wrote, “The others in the room seemed to have the inside truth about what was really going on in the world.” And also wrote, “The “skinhead”s saying this stuff were older, wiser. They’d payed attention longer and understood the problems.” “These “skinhead”s knew their shit.” Do you think young people naturally latch on to people they see as role models, because they view them as older and wiser? Do you think that older members of these movements essentially prey on the young?
 
Christian Picciolini: Young people latch onto to people they see as role models because we’re all insecure and desperately need to belong to something. The role models in these movements are typically strong, respected, or feared people. They know that preying on young kids while they are developing an identity is key to recruiting.
 
OPP: How important a factor do you think was your young age was in your indoctrination?
 
Christian Picciolini: I joined at 14. It was an age where I was trying to find who I was. I was insecure and didn’t have many friends. When I caught a glimpse of how “cool” the “skinhead” culture was, I wanted to belong.
 
OPP: What eventually moved you to renounce your belief in the white power racist movement in 1994?
 
Christian Picciolini: It was early 1995, actually, when I decided to finally leave the movement. It was not an immediate thing. I had been distancing myself for awhile until I finally left. I would say many things contributed to me leaving and renouncing. My kids certainly began the process for me. I couldn’t in good conscience expose them to the movement, even though I was involved. The compassion shown to me by others, when I least deserved it, was also a major factor. I began to humanize those outside my bubble. But ultimately, it was hitting rock bottom that allowed me to begin to explore a new path.
 
OPP: What inspired you to co-found Life After Hate and can you discuss Life After Hate’s mission.
 
Christian Picciolini: Life After Hate’s mission is basically to promote basic human goodness and to help others understand why people join movements of hate. I co-founded it in 2010 with another former white power “skinhead”. We initially started it as an online literary magazine so we could talk about our own stories. It quickly became a place for others to tell of their journeys, as well.
 
OPP: What is the first and most crucial step in recovery in your opinion. If you are a “skinhead” or a racist of any other organization or movement reading this interview and you’re questioning your involvement in this movement, what is your advice to this person?
 
Christian Picciolini: Ask yourself what good has ever come out of your involvement and be honest with yourself about the answer. Then honestly answer the questions “why do I hate?” and “why do I love?” You’ll be surprised with the answers if you allow yourself to be honest. Don’t deny yourself the drift over to love and how good it makes you feel.
 
OPP: What types of resources exist that you are aware of for those who follow a path similar to yours to help integrate them back into society and get them on a path of redemption and healing? Any recommendations of organizations that can help people who exit what I call “the racialist scene”?
 
Christian Picciolini: There are several. Other books have been written by former “skinhead”s Frank Meeink, TJ Leyden, and Arno Michaelis. Read them. Life After Hate is a resource and we’ve just launched EXIT USA, a program for those wishing to fully deradicalize from the movement. There is also a group called Formers Anonymous run by Sammy Rangel. That’s not limited to former “skinheads” and is open to those in gangs and the like who wish to detach and get support doing so.
 
OPP: Is it ever “too late” to get out of this lifestyle, and what encouragement would you give to someone considering walking away?
 
Christian Picciolini: No, it’s never too late. Well, I guess unless it kills you. That happened to a lot of my old friends. If you want to get out, you can. And you can live a happy life where you contribute in a more positive way.
 
OPP: What is “positive disruptive thinking”?
 
Christian Picciolini: Sometimes bad things need to be disrupted by good ideas.
 
OPP: What about stigmas? Do you think some people won’t seek help or try to separate from this lifestyle because they feel hopeless, and afraid of whatever stigmas are attached to them by society at large?
 
Christian Picciolini: Yes, of course. Ironically, that’s often the same reasons they join the movement too. But I can tell you from experience there is nothing more hopeless or frightening than being a part of a hate group. But you can’t see that while you’re involved. It’s only when you pop the tiny bubble you live in that you realize you were being manipulated (and being manipulative) all along. The world is a massively small place. Don’t make it even tinier by choice. You’re only robbing yourself.
 
Thanks for the interview and for supporting my book! Now let’s get a free copy in every US public library here.

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